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Rock Music of the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and the 21st Century => NBM- Non-Beatles Music => Topic started by: Greg on August 15, 2015, 10:16:15 am
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I am at a loss except to say this:
The Notorious B.I.G wrote better songs than The Clash or REM (???)
And Springsteen...he is not in the same league as Costello, but of course he is recognized as a god in RS.
Finally...Chuck Berry. He wrote the same song over and over for the most part. He is the King of RR to me but really belongs in a different category of greatness.
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As I age, I get less and less annoyed at these lists. In fact, at this point I'm totally over it. ;D I mean, I can't really get upset about people on this list that I know nothing about...and there are a lot of them. I guess RS had some idea of what they wanted beforehand. I mean...no Cole Porter on this list...and he was pretty darned big. There are some surprises on the list for me...I thought for sure MJ would be in the Top 10. He wrote a lot of hits for sure...but man he drove me nuts with some of the manipulative things he put out. U2 I thought would be higher also. Same with Elton John. I'm ok with the top 3 really. I personally would put McCartney at ONE..but that's just a matter of personal preference I guess. I still can't think of anyone else who has written so many different kinds of songs. The same guy who wrote and performed Yesterday wrote and performed Helter Skelter.....and everything in between. Crazy when you think of it. :P
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I scrolled down as far as Kanye and that was enough to void the list and really can't be bothered to find out who else they had there. :-\
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I see Hank Williams is only 3 floors above Leonard Cohen in the Tower of Song.
I didn't know a lot of those artists, but what gets me is the "of All Time" and they're all modern.
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Just had a closer look at the list, here are my more-considered thoughts (and keen to hear your own ones):
For starters, which people do you think shouldn't be on the list? For me, there should be no rappers. To be a song, lyrics have to be sung as a melody - not spoken. Therefore Kanye, Timbaland, Eminem, Biggie, Jay Z etc should not be on there. And the ABBA peeps are at #100 - therefore all those rappers and Taylor Swift have all written better songs! This is crazy! Also, there's been debate about all the songwriting teams yet Lennon and McCartney are listed separately - I think this is fair enough - most people that know the Beatles' music know that they generally wrote separately and that the 'Lennon/McCartney' partnership was in name only. Plus of course, both these guys also had massive solo careers in their own right.
A few placings I thought were a bit strange - Elton John at 48 for example shows the Americentric partiality in the list - well below the likes of Robbie Robertson, Jacskon Browne and Jerry Bloody Garcia for goodness' sake! What the hell are any of them doing there?! Probably the strangest placing of all, was the inclusion of Chuck Berry at #4. I recently got a box set of everything he ever recorded - 16 discs, year-by-year, all remastered including live stuff. I was hoping to uncover some 'lost gems' but it dawned on me that every other song on all his albums was a rewrite of his hit song riffs - over and over. People accused The Beach Boys and other groups of pinching his hooks - well he was the king of recycling the same old song over and over. Granted, his greatest tunes were rock and roll landmarks - but the 4th-greatest songwriter of all-time?
I'd be interested in who you think should be your personal #1. Mine of course would be Paul McCartney (no big shock there, lol). Who would you have on the list that isn't there? I would have Elliott Smith, Jeff Lynne, and Patti Rothberg. It sure would be fun to construct one's own 'Top 100' list!
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Yeah, I don't get the Gerry Garcia placement either....but then again..I don't get that band at all. I guess you had to have been there. Hang on..I was...I still don't get it. But hey, I don't get a lot of things haha ;D
Let's not forget the source. Rolling Stone needs to sell itself. If they start leaving off rap and hip hop, they lose a huge demographic. I didn't notice any EDM on there. Maybe next year.
Notable exceptions:
Sting. No matter what you may think of the guy, he's written a ton of hits and a ton of pretty good songs.
Nobody Prog: Not surprising since its RS...but Peter Gabriel maybe? :P
Clapton: How many classics do you need to write?
Not to mention all the people who may not have had any HUGE hits, but have never released a bad song. Anyone with the surname Finn comes to mind.
The trouble with these lists is that everyone likes different genres. So hard to please everyone. :P
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I just made my own Top 100 list! (Personal taste thing of course!) Poor ol' Bob Dylan drops to 70!!!
re. Eric Clapton, there's no denying he's one of the great guitarists and legends, but as a pure songwriter I'm not sure he belongs in there. Thinking of his hits, some of his biggest songs were cover versions of other people's songs (thinking of 'I Shot The Sheriff', 'Cocaine', 'Motherless Children', 'After Midnight' etc). And the best Cream songs were written by Jack Bruce.
But yeah - very interesting thinking of who else could be on the list that Rolling Stone missed out..
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My Top 100 Songwriters list! :o
1. Paul McCartney
2. John Lennon
3. Elliott Smith
4. Billy Joel
5. David Bowie
6. Brian Wilson
7. Elton John and Bernie Taupin
8. The Bee Gees
9. Robert Smith
10. Kurt Cobain
11. System of a Down
12. Robbie van Leeuwen
13. Neil Young
14. Jimmy Page and Robert Plant
15. Siouxsie Sioux, Budgie and Steve Severin
16. Mick Jagger and Keith Richards
17. Stevie Wonder
18. Scott Weiland
19. Jimi Hendrix
20. Layne Staley and Jerry Cantrell
21. Paul Simon
22. Jeff Lynne
23. John Fogerty
24. Holland/Dozier/Holland
25. Neil Diamond
26. Bjorn Ulvaleus and Benny Anderson
27. Patti Rothberg
28. Donovan
29. Tony Iommi
30. Pete Townshend
31. Melora Creager
32. Faith No More
33. Ben Folds
34. Madonna
35. Jonathan Davis
36. Jonathan Richman
37. Felice and Boudleaux Bryant
38. Morrissey and Marr
39. Ray Davies
40. Nick Cave
41. Slipknot
42. Don Henley and Glenn Frey
43. Prince
44. Laura Nyro
45. Tommy Roe
46. Beck
47. Buddy Holly
48. Freddie Mercury
49. Marc Bolan
50. Andrew Eldritch
51. Blur
52. Burt Bacharach and Hal David
53. Ladyhawke
54. Peter Svensson and Nina Persson
55. Roger Greenaway and Roger Cook
56. Marina Diamandis
57. Lady Gaga
58. Matt Bellamy
59. Nash Kato and Eddie Roeser
60. Josh Homme
61. Radiohead
62. Graham Gouldman
63. Daniel Johns
64. Julianne Regan
65. Billie Joe Armstrong
66. Chuck Berry
67. The Bangles
68. Dave Grohl
69. Juliana Hatfield
70. Bob Dylan
71. James Dean Bradfield
72. Carole King/and Gerry Goffin
73. Tim and Neil Finn
74. Buffy Sainte-Marie
75. Walter Becker and Donald Fagen
76. Tom Petty
77. George Harrison
78. Christine McVie
79. Emily Haines
80. Brett Anderson
81. Toni Halliday and Dean Garcia
82. Peter Murphy
83. Michael Jackson
84. Lindsey Buckingham
85. Daryl Hall and John Oates
86. John Phillips
87. Tori Amos
88. Paul Stanley
89. Leo Sayer
90. Smokey Robinson
91. Bono and The Edge
92. Cat Stevens
93. Pete Ham
94. Randy California
95. Bob Marley
96. Lionel Ritchie
97. Sting
98. Bruce Springsteen
99. Sly Stone
100. John Frusciante
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Ooooooo...Kyle...pressure is on to do a top 100 now. ;) I better get thinking here before the topic goes dead. ;D
By the way, I see Morrissey will be on The Late Late Show with James Corden tonight. They must be friends or something...you almost never see Morrissey on a chat show. :P The musical guest is always on Youtube later. :)
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Well I just realised I missed Costello out on my list! Surely he would be somewhere between Chuck Berry and The Bangles. So tough and so subjective isn't it! Yeah I just wrote em all down on Notepad and then did a bit of cut/pasting and re-jigging around til it seemed right. My Top 20 would be a solid order - the rest, maybe they change day to day? Maybe not? Hmm.
Yeah it's not very often you see Morrissey doing press stuff. It's such a shame both Morrissey and Johnny Marr are adamant they will never reform The Smiths. Morrissey seems to lack the melody and catchy riffs on his own, while Johnny Marr's solo music is not up to par either. But together, they were dynamite! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnpILIIo9ek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkrVNaf7UWk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SckD99B51IA
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Yeah, it is weird how some people create magic and don't really like each other.
Here's Morrissey from last night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHmizsvM4PY
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Thank you that was good. Enjoyed that.
It must feel strange being the lead guitarist in Morrissey's band knowing you're basically Johnny Marr's fill-in.
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KyleNZ, who was the top NZ artist on your list? I'd like to check them out. (Their are many on your list that I didn't recognize.)
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It must feel strange being the lead guitarist in Morrissey's band knowing you're basically Johnny Marr's fill-in.
Yeah, especially when you see the songwriter credits on the songs and it's Morrissey and Guitar Player. ;)
I'm probably way off here but wasn't the Morrissey-Marr dynamic..lyrics/music? I mean...does Morrissey write music? I seem to recall that Marr would send him tapes and he'd write the lyrics.
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KyleNZ, who was the top NZ artist on your list? I'd like to check them out. (Their are many on your list that I didn't recognize.)
That would be Ladyhawke at #53.. Tim and Neil Finn at 73.. hmm maybe I should swap them around? 8)
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It must feel strange being the lead guitarist in Morrissey's band knowing you're basically Johnny Marr's fill-in.
Yeah, especially when you see the songwriter credits on the songs and it's Morrissey and Guitar Player. ;)
I'm probably way off here but wasn't the Morrissey-Marr dynamic..lyrics/music? I mean...does Morrissey write music? I seem to recall that Marr would send him tapes and he'd write the lyrics.
That's right - Morrissey needs to have partners around him to take care of the music side, typically on his solo records he chose a different person for each album. The partnerships after Marr never seemed to last.
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Tim and Neil Finn at 73.. hmm maybe I should swap them around?
Is it just me that is blown away by consistency? Year after year these guys keep putting out good songs. Sure, there isn't a Hey Jude in their repertoire...but there aren't any Biker Like an Icon's either. Maybe they have an internal editor that other people don't have? There are a lot of really good songwriters out there. That's mind boggling to me. Why don't they run out? Shouldn't you run out of ideas after you're written 10 songs? :P :)
Why hasn't Billy Joel written any new songs since 1993?(other than the classical stuff) Yet, Neil Young puts out a few albums a year(sure mostly awful..but that's his thing) haha ;D
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I couldn't get to 100, this is my personal list:
1 George Harrison
2 Paul McCartney
3 John Lennon
4 Brian Wilson
5 Marc Bolan
6 Jon Anderson (& Yes)
7 Stevie Wonder
8 Bob Dylan
9 Joni Mitchell
10 Leonard Cohen
11 Van Dyke Parks
12 Nick Drake
13 Ian Anderson
14 Ray Davies
15 Don Van Vliet
16 Kevin Ayers
17 Tim Finn
18 Neil Finn
19 Moon Safari
20 John Foxx
21 David Crosby
22 Neil Young
23 Jonathan Richman
24 Jimi Hendrix
25 Elton John and Bernie Taupin
26 Paul Simon
27 Todd Rundgren
28 David Byrne
29 Bjorn Ulvaleus and Benny Anderson
30 Holland/Dozier/Holland
31 Jeff Lynne
32 Gentle Giant
33 Don McGlashan
34 Dave Dobbyn
35 Syd Barrett
36 Chuck Berry
37 Bryan Ferry & Roxy Music
38 The Bee Gees
39 George and Ira Gershwin
40 Kate Bush
41 Jim Morrison
42 John Dowland
43 Cat Stevens
44 Wayne Mason
45 Buddy Holly
46 Jimmy Page and Robert Plant
47 Phil Judd
48 Dennis Wilson
49 Van Morrison
50 Pete Ham
51 Bob Marley
52 Peter Gabriel
53 Lowell George
54 Lee Hazelwood
55 David Bowie
56 Echo and the Bunnymen
57 Michael Jackson
58 Bic Runga
59 Walter Becker and Donald Fagen
60 Burt Bacharach and Hal David
61 Frank Zappa
62 Madonna
63 Brian Eno
64 Carole King/and Gerry Goffin
65 Sam Freedman
66 Blondie
67 Genesis (sans Gabriel)
68 Carl Perkins
69 Lou Reed
70 Ian Hunter
71 David Gilmour
72 Daevid Allen
73 The Herbs
74 Robin Williamson & Mike Heron
75 John Cale
76 Richard Thompson
77 Smokey Robinson
78 Andy McCluskey & Paul Humphreys
79 Gilbert & Sullivan
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That's a great list! So good to see so many NZ songwriters in there - I should have made room for Dave Dobbyn in mine, but also great to see Don McGlashan, Wayne Mason, Bic Runga etc mentioned. And The Herbs - very much an inspired choice! ;D One more I think should get recognition is Jon Toogood of Shihad - he has been a hit songwriter for many years now with a track record right up there with Dave Dobbyn.
For our overseas friends, here's a sampler of Dave's music - here's one of his DD Smash classics from the mid-80s - 'Whaling' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ckcwDL3XYI
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Great list. That video was really really really good. Cool to see Ian Hunter on there.
I am too lazy to work on a large list.
1. McCartney
2. Lennon
3. Paul Simon
4. Stevie Wonder
5. Jagger/Richards
6. Costello
7. REM
8. Townsend
9. Strummer/Jones
10. David Byrne
11. Marley
12. Elton
13. The Doors
14. Bee Gees
15. Ray Davies
16. Dylan
17. Anton Newcombe
18. Jeff Lynne
19. Carole King
20. Neil Diamond
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That's a great list! So good to see so many NZ songwriters in there - I should have made room for Dave Dobbyn in mine, but also great to see Don McGlashan, Wayne Mason, Bic Runga etc mentioned. And The Herbs - very much an inspired choice! ;D One more I think should get recognition is Jon Toogood of Shihad - he has been a hit songwriter for many years now with a track record right up there with Dave Dobbyn.
Hey thanks, it's a personal list I don't imagine those names will mean much to the Americans on this site. But Dobbyn casts a long shadow here, he's written lots of hits, but he's just a good songwriter actually I should have put him above McGlashan I think, who is also very good. But yeah that New Zealand music is an important part of my collection, I'm not really a Flying Nun fan, but I do love those Nature's best CDs.
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Yeah, seeing your inclusion of Don McGlashan made me remember how great that debut Mutton Birds album was. The songs on there are to me the perfect representation of Kiwis and New Zealand. Songs like 'A Thing Well Made', 'White Valiant' etc.. and it also has the ultimate version of Wayne Mason's 'Nature'. Yeah, I have the Nature's Best dvd video set. Of the Flying Nunners, I would be tempted to put Shayne Carter on there. But amongst the world's best? I think that should be reserved for the Finn Brothers. Personally I had Ladyhawke there as I feel her two albums to date are right up there with anything Split Enz did, so she deserves a spot in that upper tier. Then again, Sharon O'Neill also should be in there by the same token!
We're so spoilt to have so many Kiwis capable of making music right up there with the best of them! 8)
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Those are definitely good songs, Anchor Me is probably my favourite McGlashan song, Dominion Road is also great.I'm also really keen on the Songs from the Front Lawn album. I love the Mutton Birds version of Nature but I think the original still edges it out.
One of the things music does is give a sense of connection. It is important for me to listen to kiwi music sometimes and it is cool that there is plenty of good stuff that most of the rest of the world doesn't know about. there are artists that have a particularly strong sense of place in their music. Bruce Springsteen for instance seems to be a specifically American artist, I'm not saying people from other countries can't enjoy him, but if they do they're also appreciating the Americana. But as my list was personal it makes sense to have quite a few New Zealand writers their music moves me and me others on these Islands in the Southern Hemisphere.
A Few links:
Anchor Me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPIhhqM4b4s
Welcome Home, a strong song of place by Dave Dobbyn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQlVmvXAGLI
And here is probably my favourite Dave Dobbyn song but a cover:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXcLNVlJHZA
The Mutton Birds version of Nature:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0G-8V4nCpc
Here’s the original Fourmyula version unfortunately no video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlhBkM0zNV4
Sorry, I'm turning this thread into a NZ Music thread. We're going to take over the World!
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Well it's interesting you mentioned Bruce Springsteen and the Americana element that goes hand in hand with his music, it's not something I personally relate to so much and therefore many of the Rolling Stone original list didn't resonate with me for that very reason.
I love Dominion Road too - it's one of those songs that I meant to mention that says 'New Zealand' to me. :D
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Sorry, I'm turning this thread into a NZ Music thread. We're going to take over the World!
;D 8)
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I just realized Page and Plant aren't on the RS list. Interesting.
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Ok......I begin by saying this list is highly subjective. There are some personal faves that I think are highly under-rated and, as I was getting very tired, a couple might have gotten in there twice. After around 50 or so, things get very interchangeable. For your consideration:
1. Paul McCartney
2. Bob Dylan
3. John Lennon
4. Brian Wilson
5. Goffin/ King
6. Smokey Robinson
7. Bruce Springsteen
8. Elton John/ Bernie Taupin
9. Hank Williams Sr.
10. Stevie Wonder
11. Holland/ Dozier/ Holland (Motown)
12. Chuck Berry
13. Lieber/ Stoller
14. Pete Townshend
15. Neil Diamond
16. Elvis Costello
17. Neil Finn/ Tim Finn
18. Buddy Holly
19. George Harrison
20. Billy Joel
21. Barry Gibb/ Robin Gibb/ Maurice Gibb
22. Bacharach/ David
23. Sam Cooke
24. Woody Guthrie
25. Henley/ Frey
26. Brian Setzer
27. John Fogerty
28. Jeff Lynne
29. Merle Haggard
30. Neil Young
31. Marshall Crenshaw
32. Ray Davies/ Dave Davies
33. Geddy Lee/ Alex Lifeson/ Neil Peart
34. Randy Newman
35. Willie Nelson
36. Johnny Cash
37. Kenneth Gamble/ Leon Huff
38. Marvin Gaye
39. Barrett Strong/ Norman Whitfield
40. Pete Ham
41. Paul Rodgers
42. Benny & Bjorn
43. Jon Anderson/ Yes
44. Barry Manilow
45. Ann Wison/ Nancy Wilson
46. Ray Davies/ Dave Davies
47. Paul Simon
48. Michael Jackson
49. Prince
50. Barry Mann/ Cynthia Weil
51. Mick Jagger/ Keith Richards
52. Tom Petty
53. Gram Parsons
54. Kris Kristofferson
55. Madonna
56. James Taylor
57. Freddie Mercury/ Queen
58. Curtis Mayfield
59. Al Green
60. Pat DiNizio (The Smithereens)
61. Doc Pomus/ Mort Shuman
62. Bono/ The Edge
63. Roger Waters/ David Gilmour
64. Justin Currie
65. Thomas Walsh (Pugwash/ Duckworth-Lewis Method)
66. Bryan Adams/ Jim Vallance
67. Debbie Harry/ Chris Stein
68. Barry White
69. Randy Bachman/ Burton Cummings
70. Eric Carmen
71. Lionel Richie
72. Nick Lowe
73. Terry Kath/ Robert Lamm/ Peter Cetera (Chicago)
74. Bob Gaudio (Four Seasons)
75. Gordon Lightfoot
76. Andy Partridge
77. Peter Gabriel
78. Felice/ Boudleaux Bryant
79. Lindsey Buckingham
80. Mark Knopfler
81. Dolly Parton
82. Van Morrison
83. Roger McGuinn
84. Roger Miller
85. Loretta Lynn
86. Difford/ Tilbrook
87. Tom T. Hall
88. Roy Orbison
89. Sting
90. Matthew Sweet
91. Bob Plant/ Jimmy Page
92. Lyle Lovett
93. Christine McVie
94. Jane Wiedlin (Go-Go's)
95. Brian Henneman (The Bottle Rockets)
96. Dave Stewart/ Annie Lennox
97. Jimmy Webb
98. Waylon Jennings
99. Jon Auer/ Ken Stringfellow (The Posies)
100. Ric Ocasek/ Benjamin Orr
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Nice to see Brian Wilson and Stevie Wonder getting the Love
Yeah Ray and Dave Davies are in there twice at 32 & 46
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Nice to see the Pete Ham love too. :-*
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Yeah Badfinger did some really nice songs, the best are Pete Ham but the others weren't so bad either.
We used to have these hit collections Twenty Solid Gold Hits and I think it was volume two that had T Rex Get it On, John Lennon Imagine and Badfinger Day after Day. I loved those actually particularly the T Rex and Badfinger ones. I was about 9 at the time but I still love those same songs.
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We used to have these hit collections Twenty Solid Gold Hits and I think it was volume two that had T Rex Get it On, John Lennon Imagine and Badfinger Day after Day. I loved those actually particularly the T Rex and Badfinger ones. I was about 9 at the time but I still love those same songs.
Yes!!! That was one of the first records in our house I remember playing over and over and over! My favourite song on it was Day After Day, followed by Get It On and Imagine. And I also had a thing for 'Good Morning Mr Rock and Roll' by NZ band Headband and 'Softly Whispering I Love You' by Congregation.