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Rock Music of the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and the 21st Century => NBM- Non-Beatles Music => Topic started by: 2 of 3 on August 03, 2016, 04:55:38 pm
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Ok, I'll start. :o
Pet Sounds is the most overrated album of all time.
First off....God Only Knows is a work of genius. But then what? What worked so well with GOK's just sounds goofy to me on the rest of the songs. What was BW thinking at the time? Hmm..let's see how many minor or weird chord changes I can make? :P
Ok...hit me. ;D
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YEP! ;D
I know we disagree on The Donald, but on this one I am in absolute agreement with you!
Only a month ago I voiced my opinion on this very matter, on the 'Re: 10 Best Albums of All Time(not including Beatles)' thread - http://letstalkbeatles.com/Beatles_Blogs/index.php?topic=1519.0
This will probably sound sacrilegious, but I'm not a big raver of Pet Sounds. Yes, it has one of the most beautiful songs ever penned (God Only Knows), but the rest of it is full of some horrible timbres, especially those 'buzzy'-sounding saxophones that seem to penetrate every song. And I'm not convinced that the actual sound quality of the recordings is that pristine, it almost has that 'coming out of a transistor radio' feel to it - even though it has all these lush instruments on it. It hasn't aged well.
Apart from 'God Only Knows', I do like 'Don't Talk (Put Your Head on My Shoulder)', 'Here Today' and 'Caroline No', but the rest of them, like you say - they just seem goofy and annoying in their arrangements. I don't count 'Sloop John B' as it was originally recorded in 1965 and therefore shouldn't be considered part of the Pet Sounds project as such.
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Only a month ago I voiced my opinion on this very matter
Hehe..that figures. Hey....if I ever come up with an original thought around here, please let me know. ;D ;D
I know we disagree on The Donald
Do we? :o ;) ;D
I don't count 'Sloop John B' as it was originally recorded in 1965
Plus it's a traditional song. I guess that shouldn't matter, though. Scarborough Fair is pretty great.
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Most overrated album of all-time? I can agree, but I will always believe it's one of the greatest of all-time. Maybe top 30 or 40 for me. Yet it's probably rated higher than that too too much.
When I read 'most overrated' I thought of Thriller right away, but that has to be part of a generational thing on my part.
Ive been trying to think of other nominees but cant right now. Maybe Born To Run.
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When I read 'most overrated' I thought of Thriller right away, but that has to be part of a generational thing on my part.
That's a good point about Thriller. The singles were fantastic - that alone propelled the phenomenal success of that album. People would rather have all those singles on one album rather than have to buy all the individual 45s.
But all the non-singles on the album are woefully average to me. It's not like say there's a 'I'm Looking Through You' or 'You Won't See Me' on it - y'know, a lesser-known song on it that is a true gem. Thriller is propped up by MJ's success courtesy of the MTV machine at the time.
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No no Pet Sounds every track is beautiful. This is the teenage yearning finding it's perfect expression, completely unique. Brian Wilson had showed he was good before, but this one shows him fully expressive as an artist.
Wouldn't it be Nice is a teenage dream song, so tender, innocent and just amazing song.
You still believe in me: vulnerable, lots of space, great melody
That's not Me, what a fantastic drum sound, then the change that happens with "I'm a little bit scared..." with the drums stopping and vocal arrangement coming in gently
Don't talk Put Your Head on My Shoulder: This is heart breaking, Brian's vocal is just fantastic, so much space, great strings and bass
I won't go through all the songs
But God Only Knows: absolute undeniable classic
Here Today: Musically amazing arrangements and section changes, one of my favourite pieces of music starts at 1:47.
Finishes with Caroline No: Another Brian Wilson masterpiece.
This album you can just lose yourself in start to finish, maybe only Sloop John B doesn't fit, but that's a very good song.
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For My part I'd say pretty much anything by Cold Play, Radio Head, U2, AC DC, Pink Floyd the Wall, actually tons of pop and rock music is over rated.
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I've been trying to think of other nominees but cant right now. Maybe Born To Run.
I can see how some might say this.....I am not one of them, however.
I might as well wade in here and add something that might make some unhappy. I recall a list from some magazine calling "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" the greatest rock album ever. Personally, I don't even think "SPLHCB" is even The Beatles' best album, let alone the greatest ever. I much prefer "Revolver" to "Pepper", as a collection of songs....I should add, however, that "Pepper" was far more influential in terms of what came after.
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The whole Bruce thing...I am so biased. Rolling Stone and Wenner just touted this guy so much when The Talking Heads started, Clash, ...all the new groups. It was so frustrating to get your copy of RS and see Springsteen covered endlessly and Art Garfunkle's new solo album or whatever.
We really wanted to read about Costello and those guys.
I love Bruce as a person. He seems like such a great guy. His music bores me but not millions of others. He must be great or people I respect (incl Mervap) wouldnt like him so much.
Pepper should almost be taken out of the equation. What a weird record. It was so so so so so iconic. Wasn't it in the top 10 for a half a year? I remember when it came out and just changed everything. It was everywhere. Maybe the music is overrated, but its impact is sometimes underrated. And we should never forget the debt it owes to Pet Sounds.
Maybe its impact is what is so stunning, and that is its true legacy.
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I hope you folks realise that I wasn't really trying to put down Pet Sounds. In fact, I originally wanted to call the topic The Controllversy Thread.....just so you knew I was just kidding around. My intent was to spark some conversation. My original thoughts are the same, though. I don't get the love. But, that doesn't mean anything. If Paul Frickin McCartney and a host of other incredible songwriters think Pet Sounds is the bomb, then hey...they are right. :)
I don't dislike Pet Sounds...I just don't get it. :o
Also...I think the Beatles are underrated. Yup. 8)
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I hope you folks realise that I wasn't really trying to put down Pet Sounds. In fact, I originally wanted to call the topic The Controllversy Thread.....just so you knew I was just kidding around. My intent was to spark some conversation. My original thoughts are the same, though. I don't get the love. But, that doesn't mean anything. If Paul Frickin McCartney and a host of other incredible songwriters think Pet Sounds is the bomb, then hey...they are right. :)
I don't dislike Pet Sounds...I just don't get it. :o
Also...I think the Beatles are underrated. Yup. 8)
I totally understand your post. In fact, your post is exactly what I thought you were thinking when you wrote the orig post. Seriously.
It would be foolish of me to try to convince you of the greatness of Pet Sounds. Music is kind of like food isnt it? If you dont like Indian Food then you dont like it. I love Indian Food, and I just ate a can of Spaghetti-O's. Are Spaghetti-O's and Indian food anywhere near each other? No. I lovem both though.
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The whole Bruce thing...I am so biased. Rolling Stone and Wenner just touted this guy so much when The Talking Heads started, Clash, ...all the new groups. It was so frustrating to get your copy of RS and see Springsteen covered endlessly and Art Garfunkle's new solo album or whatever.
I totally can see that....Wenner did over-cover The Boss. Even in the eighties, he was still promoting him as if he had a stake in it. It was really at around that time that RS started losing credibility. Then, it kinda became a fashion mag....
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So here is what I ask...
I basically know nothing of Bruce. I know the MTV video songs of Glory Days and whatever. I know "baby we were born to run". Thats about it.
Give me 2-5 songs to listen to that you have respect for.
Just the names will do. I'll lookem up.
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I would recommend almost anything on Springsteen's "Nebraska" album. It's not the easiest way in, but it's some of his best songs and character studies. It plays like a Steinbeck novel.
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Nice to see you all backing off Pet Sounds. :)
Can't say I've ever listened to Springsteen.
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It was really at around that time that RS started losing credibility.
Oh? I thought they lost credibility around November of 1969 when the first YES album came out...and every YES album since. ::)
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Oh? I thought they lost credibility around November of 1969 when the first YES album came out...and every YES album since. ::)
I completely love Yes (at least when they have Jon Anderson in the band). I think the rock press have shown that they don't care about art, individuality, creativity and expression which Yes epitomise, they care about social fashion.
Close to the Edge is musical audacity, more than any punk band I can think of, very underestimated band by the rock press.
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So here is what I ask...
I basically know nothing of Bruce. I know the MTV video songs of Glory Days and whatever. I know "baby we were born to run". Thats about it.
Give me 2-5 songs to listen to that you have respect for.
Just the names will do. I'll lookem up.
I know this is supposed to be the controversy thread, but I'm in complete agreement with everything said here.
I can see the appeal of Pet Sounds and admire the ambition behind it.
Bruce Springsteen I cannot stomach at all, EXCEPT the Born in the USA album. So those 2-5 songs, I would say would be 'Darlington County', 'Downbound Train', and all the big singles from that album! My brother is a big Springsteen fan and heard all the other records via him, and Nebraska is way too dull and depressing for me.
Rolling Stone magazine went down the tubes years and years ago. It's about as pro-Establishment and pro-social justice/political correctness as you can get.
Agree that all the UK rock bands like Radiohead, Coldplay, U2 etc are way overrated. They don't really have what you would call a thriving rock scene anymore. Unless you're into hipsters with beards, manbuns and banjos and guitars strapped up around their nipples!
And Sgt Pepper I agree is not even The Beatles' best album (I would plump for Revolver or Abbey Road). It's impact however, was phenomenal. Just like its nemesis, Pet Sounds.
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Nebraska is way too dull and depressing for me.
Yeah, "Nebraska" isn't for everyone....I would just say that it arrived at a perfect time for me. I was 16 and wondering what life would hold for me. The portrait Springsteen paints of America on this album isn't rosy at all, full of characters who are swept up into maelstroms that are mostly not of their own making.
"My Father's House" reached right into my heart and showed me a reflection of myself....it's a story of a guy who had an acrimonious split with his dad many years before...it's a picture of regret. My own dad had left our family when I was six and I held my resentment of him close at hand...I am lucky Bruce wrote this song and I heard it with open ears. I was able to patch it up with my dad and had a good relationship with him for the rest of his life.
Last night I dreamed that I was a child out where the pines grow wild and tall
I was trying to make it home through the forest before the darkness falls
I heard the wind rustling through the trees and ghostly voices rose from the fields
I ran with my heart pounding down that broken path
With the devil snappin at my heels
I broke through the trees and there in he night
My fathers house stood shining hard and bright the branches and brambles tore my clothes and scratched my arms
But I ran till I fell shaking in his arms
I awoke and I imagined the hard things that pulled us apart
Will never again sir tear us from each others hearts
I got dressed and to that house I did ride from out on the road I could see its windows shining in light
I walked up the steps and stood on the porch a woman I didn't recognize came and spoke to me through a chained door
I told her my story and who Id come for
She said "Im sorry son but no one by that name lives here anymore"
My fathers house shines hard and bright it stands like a beacon calling me in the night
Calling and calling so cold and alone
Shining cross this dark highway where our sins lie unatoned
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Yeah, Nebraska is the only Bruce album I like. When it came out my friends were..."it doesn't rock". I was thankful. Bruce knows how to talk to you lyrically. I'm a Tunes guy, though. I'm always drawn to the melody and I don't really care about Lyrics too much. It's great when they both work, but I don't buy music for lyrics. Sax solos do really drive me nuts, though. Bruce...I'm talking to you! :)
As far as Coldplay goes...they had me with the first 2 albums and then lost me with the rest. Chris Martin knows how to write a melody. The problem is he keeps doing the same one over and over.
I should probably clarify with the Coldplay remarks. The melody is still there...it's just buried behind big arena sound arrangements. Played acoustically, there is still some nice stuff there. Who knew Eno secretly wants to be Phil Spector. Jeesh.
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I completely love Yes (at least when they have Jon Anderson in the band).
I am with you there....I even liked them during the Trevor Years.
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I'm looking forward to the new Anderson Rabin Wakeman album. I think I read the end of 2016. :)
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Yeah I like 90125, Trevor Rabin has now spent years creating copious amounts of soundtrack music, I have to say I haven't listened to it but it must have given him a lot of scope and dexterity. I'd be very keen to see what kind of album they could come up with.
Jon Anderson has been busy recently with his Anderson Ponty band album and tour. I really like the album Jean Luc Ponty is a great musician and musically they came together very quickly and to me it works very well. I'd love to see them make an album of entirely new music together sometime.
On top of that Anderson has also put out an album with Roine Stolt of the Flower Kings, he's a prominent Swedish neo prog rocker, very accomplished. The album is "Invention of Knowledge" it is very individualistic and I really like it. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone because it is so iconoclastic. I'll have to do a review of it sometime.
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I was really happy how this collaboration with Todmobile turned out. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwspoyRdeV0
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I'll have to do a review of it sometime.
Looking forward to that!
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Looking forward to that!
You're too kind, it can take me ages to get around to these things. In the meantime you're welcome to read my blog giving a broad survey of his more recent work:
http://kerismusic.blogspot.co.nz/2016/06/jon-anderson-post-yes-with-little-on.html
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Keri, you seem to have a true gift for writing....I enjoyed that immensely.
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Keri, you seem to have a true gift for writing....I enjoyed that immensely.
Thanks Merv, really appreciate that. I think my writing varies, I was happy with that piece because I thought I had something to say.